The following is a transcript of an interview with Karen Pierce, British ambassador to the U.S., on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Nov. 10, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re now joined by Dame Karen Pierce, the UK’s ambassador to the United States. Welcome back to Face The Nation.
AMBASSADOR DAME KAREN PIERCE: Thank you very much. Margaret, nice to be here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So Ambassador, after this election, there was a lot of chatter in Europe about Europe needing to act alone, or at least without as much of an American support mechanism there. The French president said “Europe needs to take back control.” Italy’s Prime Minister said, “Don’t ask what the US can do for you, ask what Europe should do for itself.” What do you think Trump’s return will mean for Europe?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: I think in all my experience Margaret, when America and Europe work together, that’s when you get success. That’s when you get coherence in policy. We saw that in the Balkans. We’ve seen it at every conflict since the 1990s. It’s great that Europe wants to do more. We want to be a part of that. We’ve got a lot of burden sharing going on in Europe on Ukraine, I think perhaps it’s not well understood in America, if I may say so, quite how much Europe is doing for Ukraine, and we want to talk about that with the incoming administration, as well as work with the Biden team to help Ukraine even further.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The United Kingdom, of course, has- has provided a tremendous amount of weaponry and support to Ukraine.
DAME KAREN PIERCE: That’s exactly right. I think we’re over $16 billion all-in. We provided the first tanks. We provided the first anti-tank weapons. We have trained Ukrainian pilots. We’re going to go on supporting Ukraine for as long as they need us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Will you do that if the United States cuts off financial and military aid to Ukraine?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: Well, we obviously hope that doesn’t happen, and we’re going to be wanting to have lots of conversations with the outgoing and incoming administrations on just how best to support Ukraine. I think we all want the same thing. We want a stable, secure, peaceful, Euro-Atlantic area. And if Putin is allowed to succeed in Ukraine, that threatens all of us, including the US, and it certainly emboldens China, and I don’t think anyone in the US wants to see that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So on Friday, Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who is a problematic NATO ally. He’s friends with Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, he said “The situation on the front is obvious. There’s been a military defeat. The Americans are going to pull out of this war.” He’s talking about Ukraine. Do you think Mr. Trump is persuadable on this issue?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: Well, I don’t think it’s for any single European leader to say what President Trump might do. I think we need to hear from President Trump after inauguration on what the new administration’s plans are. But certainly I know they share our goal of wanting to have security and stability, and we’ll be talking to them and the outgoing Biden administration to see how best we can support Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. Orban does speak with Donald Trump, but you don’t get the sense that he is reflecting–
DAME KAREN PIERCE: — We speak to Donald Trump, the Prime Minister spoke to him very recently, on the Wednesday after- the day after the election. In my experience, President Trump is his own person. He’ll listen to a lot of advice, some of it solicited, some of it unsolicited, and he’ll weigh the pros and cons, and he’ll come to his own decision. But I have always found him and his team very willing to listen to our point of view.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So on the trade front, there’s also concern in Europe, as I understand it, about what may be coming with tariffs. The Trump campaign has proposed a 10% across the board tariff on Europe. Goldman Sachs projects it will be perhaps a little bit more limited and focused on auto exports. Do you have a sense that the UK may be able to avoid this kind of financial penalty, essentially?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: We would very much hope so. As- as the UK, you know, we’ve got free trade in our DNA, as it were. We don’t believe in tariffs as an instrument of trade. We have a slightly different approach from many American trade specialists on that. And I think the last thing the world needs at the moment is a tariff war. That doesn’t help anybody. Trade and investments are hugely important part of what we do with America, something like a trillion dollars goes backwards and forwards across the Atlantic in trade and investment each year. Let’s not put that at risk. Let’s try and find out how we can work together to increase investment and trade. And there’s also the really important issue of economic security that’s now come onto the agenda, and we’ll be wanting to talk to the incoming administration about that also.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you served here in Washington during the first Trump administration. You know many of these players. The current UK Government is a different one, of course, from that period of time with the Labor Party in charge. I have to ask you about that direct relationship, because the top diplomat, Foreign Secretary David Lammy, years ago, and you know this quote, wrote “Trump is not only a woman hating neo-Nazi sympathizing sociopath, he’s a profound threat to the international order.” Are you concerned that those past statements and the ideological differences will be a problem in what has been a special relationship?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: I don’t think the past statements will be a problem, to be absolutely honest, Margaret. Politicians say a lot of things on both sides. And even in America, some people who are now in the Trump administration, or will be in the Trump administration, like the Vice President-Elect, have also said critical things about President Trump. In my experience, politicians kind of absorb those sorts of comments as part of the wear and tear of political life. What’s important is the relationship now. David Lammy, the foreign secretary, the Prime Minister Keir Starmer, had a very warm dinner with President Trump in September. He very graciously invited them to his private home in Trump Tower. We discussed a huge range of issues. You’re right that they come from different political philosophies. I wouldn’t call them ideological. I don’t think Keir Starmer is ideological, and I don’t think President Trump is. It’s about finding out how we can work together. What they do have in common is this desire to get the economies moving, to get growth for the ordinary citizen, to make sure things are better for the ordinary citizen. And we had a very good conversation about that with President Trump in September.
MARGARET BRENNAN: One of the UK politicians who was at Mar-a-Lago and celebrating on election night was Nigel Farage. He’s known for his anti-immigrant stance. There has been, not just in the US, but also in Europe, around the world, this backlash against immigrants and migration, and that has really impacted a lot of politics here. I’m wondering what your thoughts are, more broadly, about what kind of political force and factor that is in the world we’re in now? It’s a big question, but it does seem like there’s something global happening.
DAME KAREN PIERCE: I’d agree with you, Margaret, there’s something very important for a lot of electorates ’round the world about the subject of immigration. But I don’t want to give the impression that in the west or in the UK we are not generous to people in need. We took a lot of Syrians, a lot of Afghans, a lot of Ukrainians. Economic migration is the thing we’re all very worried about. And although the problem manifests itself differently in the UK from in the US, I think you’re right. It is something that voters care about. It is something that the British Government is committed to tackling. The Prime Minister is very interested in how you act against the criminal gangs who foster this sort of migration, and actually are the ones exploiting people who come across in small boats or whatever conveyance they use. It’s about stopping the gangs and stopping the traffickers, and we’ll need a lot of international coordination to make that happen.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador Pierce, thank you for your time today.
DAME KAREN PIERCE: Thank you very much.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.