The following is a transcript of an interview with Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Nov. 17, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we turn now to Democratic Congressman Jim Himes. He is the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, and he joins us this morning from Stamford, Connecticut. Good morning to you.
REP. JIM HIMES: Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I feel like there is so much news, and I’m getting through a fraction of it frankly here. I want to- I want to pick up on Tulsi Gabbard, which we just- who we just discussed in the previous segment, she was a democratic colleague of yours for many, many years. You’re the ranking member on the Intelligence Committee. She never served on that kind of committee. Do you think experience is necessary? Is she fit for the job?
REP. HIMES: Margaret, how far we have come that on a major news show the question we’re examining is, is experience necessary for one of the most powerful positions in the land? Of course, it’s necessary. You know, it’s a little bit like our obsession right now with the ethics committee report on Matt Gaetz. You know- I mean, how is it that this is what we’re focusing on? Matt Gaetz is, by any standard, completely unqualified to be the Attorney General, and yet we’re sort of focused on this, you know, cherry on the cupcake of the ethics report. You know, it sort of reminds me of Al Capone in 1931. Al Capone is convicted of a couple of counts of tax evasion. Now he was a killer and a rum runner and a mafioso, and yet he was convicted of tax evasion. This is what the conversation we’re having about Matt Gaetz. You know, well, what about this ethics report? So, these people are manifestly unqualified, and, you know, they’re not prepared to run the very complicated organizations they’ve been asked to run.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have any suggestion from your Republican colleagues in the Senate that either of those two individuals will not be confirmed for those positions?
REP. HIMES: Look, all I would observe is that, you know, history is- is a harsh judge and- and I understand what happens to Republicans who stand up to Donald Trump. You know, talk to Adam Kinzinger or Liz Cheney, or, you know, many of the Republicans who voted for his impeachment who are now gone. I understand that. But history is a hard- hard judge and a Republican senator who takes a vote to consent to the appointment of Matt Gaetz, a chaos agent, a performative social media, no respect for the rule of law, individual. The Republican senator who votes to confirm Matt Gaetz or Robert Kennedy or Tulsi Gabbard, will be remembered by history as somebody who completely gave up their responsibility to Donald Trump.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The Speaker of the House called him one of the greatest minds in the United States or anywhere on another program this morning. On intelligence, though, because of your committee oversight, John Ratcliffe, another former House member who went on to serve in an acting role at intelligence previously, he is the selection to run the CIA. Do you trust him to appropriately handle sensitive intelligence information?
REP. HIMES: I do Margaret and just to be balanced here, since I was pretty strong in my opinions about the Attorney General and the DNI nomination, I actually had a really good day when Marco Rubio was nominated for Secretary of State, when John Ratcliffe was nominated for CIA and when Mike Waltz was nominated to be national security advisor. I would even add the nominee for the Southern District of New York, Jay Clayton. Those are good nominations, not necessarily the nominations I would have made if I were president. But these are serious people with real experience. They’re not social media personalities. They haven’t built their careers on lies and conspiracy. So look, some of these nominations I think are quite solid, and John Ratcliffe falls in that category for me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Last night, President elect Trump was at a UFC rally, and alongside him was someone who has had a lot of scrutiny, Elon Musk. He is a billionaire with extensive US government contracts, as I understand it, holds a security clearance himself. He has extensive business ties with China. Also had with him the Saudi Arabia private investment fund governor. They invest with his son in law, Jared Kushner, and they’ve held golf tournaments through the- one of their entities at Trump golf courses. Do you think that in this new Congress, there will be scrutiny of potential financial conflicts of interest around Mr. Trump?
REP. HIMES: Well, of course there will be, right? I mean, this is, this is sort of not subject to debate. We saw Trump’s first term, and the fact that that, you know, group of people weren’t particularly concerned with financial conflicts of interest. And look, all- I don’t know, Elon Musk, odd character, you know, you sort of have to respect what he’s done to disrupt, you know, space launch, to disrupt, you know, the auto industry and whatnot. But, you know, early reviews are not good. I read his, you know, 12 point government waste manifesto, you know. And he said, look at all this money we’re paying on interest on the debt. That’s, you know, that’s part of the wasteful spending. Guess what? You got to pay interest on the debt. And so, you know, I’m skeptical that he has any clue. Look, I- I live in Fairfield County, Connecticut. I know lots of wealthy people here, and there is a syndrome where very wealthy people who got wealthy in finance or as a tech entrepreneur decide that their heart surgeons and capable of running the United States. I think that’s what’s going on with Elon Musk. But, you know, again, early returns are not good with respect to his ability to understand the federal bureaucracy and make it more efficient, which is a laudable goal, but I’m going to reserve judgment
MARGARET BRENNAN: And no offense to the Fairfield County residents who voted for you. I’m sure. On Saturday, President Biden was meeting with Xi Jinping, and they met for a little less than two hours. The White House says they did discuss that pervasive hacking of U.S. telecom companies that allowed them to steal customer call record data, compromise private communications of those involved in government and copy information related to law enforcement actions. Do you know and can you say if the hackers have actually been kicked out of U.S. infrastructure, or is China still embedded?
REP. HIMES: Yeah, Margaret, that’s not a question I can answer with an awful lot of specificity, but the fact that we obviously know about these- these hacks means that those particular hacks probably have been addressed in one way or another. But one thing I can say with great confidence, having worked in the intelligence world for some time now, is that, I promise you, they are out there in ways that we don’t know about. So my hope is that the President made it very clear that this kind of behavior is not tolerable, and that he backs that up, and quite frankly, that Donald Trump, the next president, backs that up with action. You know, as Teddy Roosevelt said, the big stick, right? We’re pretty good at hacking networks too, and I think it’s really important for the Chinese to understand that we’re not just going to name and shame the hackers and complain about it. But that we- that we are going to go into their networks and give as good as we got. I suspect that in this realm, they need to see that we are capable of inflicting a lot of damage if they continue their present behavior.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Noted. There will be some selections as we understand it, in the coming days in the financial space. You also sit on the Financial Services Committee. Trump backer, Elon Musk, yesterday blasted one of the hedge fund CEO Scott Bessent, a crypto currency skeptic, who is being considered for that role. Howard Lutnick, the CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, apparently also being considered for that role. He is a crypto currency fan. Does either candidate stand out to you for a better pick? And what does it really project out to you about what’s going to happen in this space for Mr. Trump?
REP. HIMES: Well, you know, it’s obviously up to the president to decide who he’d like as Treasury Secretary. You know, I would note that his first Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin- I certainly had disagreements with him on any number of topics, including desanctioning the Russian aluminum company. But you know, in the cast of characters in version 1.0 of the Trump administration, Steve Mnuchin was far from the creepiest and crawliest of them. So we’ll see what he does on Treasury. What I will say is that, look crypto, you know, it’s a little bit like the Gaetz ethics report. Crypto has yet to make an impact on most Americans’ lives, and so I would just argue- and by the way, I’m open to crypto. I helped work on the legislation to regulate it, but this is not the determinative factor in our financial lives right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I know it’s a technical issue. I asked you to get to fairly quickly there, Congressman. I appreciate you weighing in and thank you for your time. “Face the Nation” will be back in a minute.