The following is the transcript of an interview with Sen. Bill Hagerty, Republican of Tennessee, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Feb. 9, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Tennessee Republican Senator Bill Hagerty, who joins us this morning from Palm Beach, Florida. Good morning to you, Senator.
SEN. BILL HAGERTY: Good morning, Margaret, good to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I have a lot to get to with you today, but I want to start with the announcement from the White House that over 65,000 employees have accepted the offer to leave their jobs with pay through September 30. This is that deferred resignation program, or buyout, as it’s called. Can you explain how putting federal workers on paid leave through September will save taxpayers money if we’re paying them not to work?
SEN. HAGERTY: Margaret, eventually it will save taxpayers money. I think what President Trump is trying to do is be humane in the process of allowing them to make plans to find other employment, but I certainly think the government is far too big, far too bloated, and we’re on a path now to start to see it shrink. This is the first step only, but we’re moving in the right direction.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So does that mean the agencies won’t hire replacements for these people who- who take the so called buyout? Are you reducing headcount?
SEN. HAGERTY: I think what we’ll see is each agency- yeah, I think what we’ll see, Margaret, is each agency go through a top to bottom review to decide exactly what they need to do to deliver on behalf of the American public. As you know, there’s been a lot of consternation and pearl clutching about the activities of Elon Musk and his team, but their charge, led by President Trump, is to go in and find efficiencies, find opportunities, and, frankly, deliver more of taxpayer dollars to the actual programs that are intended less to overhead in administration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you said eventually it will save money. I know you’re on Appropriations Committee, and you watch these things pretty closely here. When will it save money?
SEN. HAGERTY: Well, I would say certainly as soon as these people start to roll off the payroll again. I’m from the private sector Margaret. My entire background has been in business. This is the way you do it. You come in, you look at the opportunities before you. President Trump has brought a new administration in. This is not unusual, to take a hard look at these programs and also to look for opportunities to cut bloat and waste. Look, we’re $36 trillion in debt. Clearly, the American- the American public needs to see more accountability, more visibility, more performance for their taxpayer dollars.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, and I think anyone who works in the private sector understands how layoffs work. The government is so unique, though, with laws establishing some of these agencies. And as you know, and we’ll talk about it later in the program, some of this is tied up in the courts. Specifically, since you’re on Banking, the budget director announced he’s notified the Federal Reserve that the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau will no longer take congressional funding because it’s not necessary. Elon Musk tweeted, rest in peace. Can you tell us, did the White House inform–
SEN. HAGERTY: — I missed Elon Musk’s tweet–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –the bank- Yeah, did- did the White House inform the Banking committee that it’s being dismantled? What does CFPB rest in peace mean?
SEN. HAGERTY: So I’ve- I’ve had significant conversations with Russ Vought, who is our new OMB director. The CFPB has been out of control for some time. The way it’s designed, I think, is unconstitutional. It has no oversight. It’s been basically a reckless agency that’s been allowed to go way beyond any mandate that I think was originally intended. So it’s time to rein it in, and I’m applauding anything that we can do to bring more stability, more control to the federal government and take agencies like this back, you know, back into some sort of sense of accountability and oversight.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So what does that mean? Because it’s established as an agency and there are legal protections here.
SEN. HAGERTY: Well, it was established as- as an agency that does not have the jurisdiction of the Congress. Its funding source is separate from us. It has no accountability. This is not the type of agency, I think, that the Founding Fathers contemplated. We- we actually contemplated a balance of power. Yet this rogue agency has been created, and frankly, it’s been used as a tool to come in and just hammer the American private sector and pursue initiatives that you, know, certain- certain people like Rohit Chopra might have approved, or Senator Elizabeth Warren might have approved. But this is not the way the American public should be funding and supporting programs of this nature.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, so a different government agency, USAID, and its fate is also in question. We looked at the Congressional Research Service definition here, because it was enshrined in law, USAID, it says, because Congress established it as independent within the executive branch, “the President does not have the authority to abolish it.” Congressional authorization would be required to abolish, move, or consolidate USAID. So, have you or do you expect Congress to actually authorize the President to dismantle and consolidate USAID?
SEN. HAGERTY: I think there’s a tremendous appetite to do it. Again, Margaret, because what we want to see is alignment of our programs with America’s national security interest. USAID has been out of control. I’ve demanded accountability from AID. They’ve refused it. As an appropriator, I’ve, you know, asked them to be very clear about, for example, their role in funding Hamas in Gaza. They would not comply. They will not tell us what they do. Now that we start to find out some of the programs that AID has been funding, if you think about it, sex change operations in Guatemala, LGBTQ programs in Serbia–
(BEGIN CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The U.S. government does not fund sex change operations–
SEN. HAGERTY: –this is ridiculous. This is so beyond the pale–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –or fund Hamas. You know that, though, but you- you sit on–
SEN. HAGERTY: And that is not true, Margaret, I couldn’t get the Secretary of State- I asked him three times to tell me that we were not funding Hamas through AID. He couldn’t do it. And frankly, what we’ve found is–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have any evidence that the United States government is- ter-
SEN. HAGERTY: –that we’ve been funding, as American taxpayers, organizations–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –is- is funding a terrorist group?
SEN. HAGERTY: Certainly. The- the funds that have gone to UNRWA, you saw the- the UNRWA members–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, that’s a- UNRWA is not a terrorist group–
SEN. HAGERTY: –who were also Hamas members go in and attack on–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –UNRWA is part of- of the United Nations–
SEN. HAGERTY: UNRWA is supporting terrorist groups. And if you look at what UNRWA has done, it’s been so counter to our national interest. It’s unbelievable that we would fund it.
(END CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Since you’re on Foreign Relations, let me ask you specifically, what’s happening inside the State Department right now. A gentleman named Darren Beattie has been appointed as acting Under Secretary for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs. He was fired from the first Trump administration after he attended a white nationalist convention. He’s made a lot of inflammatory statements against women and minorities. If he couldn’t work for the first Trump administration, how is he qualified to work now?
SEN. HAGERTY: Margaret, I’m not familiar with Mr. Beattie or the claims that you raised, but- we want to talk about qualifications for people serving the administration, why not look back at the prior administration? The only qualification Tony Blinken seemed to have to be Secretary of State is that he organized 51 intelligence- so-called intelligence officials to forge a letter to say that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.
(CROSSTALK BEGINS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay–
SEN. HAGERTY: I mean, we want to talk about accountability and who should be serving, let’s go back and look at the last administration–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –is attending a white nationalist rally apro- if it wasn’t appropriate to attend a white nationalist rally then–
SEN. HAGERTY: I don’t know anything about this, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –is it appropriate now?
SEN. HAGERTY: I don’t know anything about this man.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Well, the Secretary of State spoke about it–
SEN. HAGERTY: I don’t know anything about this man. I’m not going to respond.
(END CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: –earlier this week, so Secretary Rubio does know about it. Tariffs. President Trump said he plans, as soon as this week, new reciprocal tariffs on everybody. It sounds like he’s broadening out this trade war. Do you know exactly which goods or countries will be impacted in the coming days?
SEN. HAGERTY: So, I talked with President Trump on Friday about this broadly, Margaret. This is a concern that he has had for some time. As you know, I served in his previous administration and worked my heart out to get two trade agreements executed with Japan. I was U.S. Ambassador to Japan in his administration. Here’s what we’re trying to deal with, and it goes all the way back to World War II and the aftermath.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
SEN. HAGERTY: We made very favorable terms of trade with- with countries whose economies–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
SEN. HAGERTY: –had dev- devastated in Europe and Japan. We should have time-limited that. We should have put some type of GDP–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
SEN. HAGERTY: –per capita limit on it, because what we have now are countries that have very unfavorable and unfair terms–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SEN. HAGERTY: –that are fully developed. So it’s time to- to address this–
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator, I’m sorry–
SEN. HAGERTY: It’s already begun to happen, President Trump and I talk- yeah.
MARGARET BRENNA: Senator, I’m sorry, my-
SEN. HAGERTY: –it’s already begun to happen.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m running out of time to- because of the commercial break that’s coming up here–
SEN. HAGERTY: Okay.
(END CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: –so I have to leave it there. I apologize for cutting you off. We’ll be right back.